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Unread 01-29-2010, 06:12 PM   #1
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Default So what do you guys think of the proposed door mounted side mirrors for the next gen?

Click the image to open in full size.

At first I thought it was change for the sake of change, but then when I see that my Mini has them this way (an advanced specimen of German engineering), and the fact that it's a little more complicated mounting them on the door panels, I thought there must be an advantage to mounting them that way. And the advantage clearly is better visibility through less obstruction when looking out the side windows.
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Unread 01-29-2010, 09:40 PM   #2
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Wow, that's a pretty subtle change that you absolutely cannot help but notice once you see it for the first time. Not sure what I think yet...
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Unread 01-29-2010, 10:25 PM   #3
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The hood emblem is round. VW?
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Unread 01-29-2010, 10:34 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Soupcan View Post
The hood emblem is round. VW?
Well, the test car also has drawn-on side vents, so I wouldn't put too much stock in the minor details.
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Unread 01-29-2010, 10:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
I wouldn't put too much stock in the minor details.

Like Casper in the passenger seat.
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Unread 01-31-2010, 03:20 PM   #6
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There's a definite trade-off in the functionality of such a design from what I can see, without regard to manufacturing factors.

Having the side mirrors mounted on the doors has two obvious benefits. One, when making a sharp left turn, as in a hairpin turn, the driver's view is not as obstructed by the side mirror as when it is mounted in the corner of the window on top of the door panel as in the current 997 design. Two, the closer the side mirror is to the driver the wider the viewing angle provided by a mirror, essentially increasing a mirror's effectiveness without increasing its size.

The downside to having the mirrors shifted back is that they start to fall out of range of a driver's peripheral vision, meaning more head movement from the driver to see rear views, instead of just quick eye movements to see what's behind you. But this drawback is not such a negative compared to the view obstruction with corner mounted mirrors.

And if increased head movement is not considered such a drawback in side mirror design, then you'd think that the further back the better, so as to eliminate all significant obstruction of view by the mirror. For a tall driver with long legs this would not present a problem. But for short drivers who have to have the seat all the way forward, the limit to how far back to place the side mirrors is set, I'm sure, by taking into consideration the needs of this small segment of the driving population.
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Unread 02-01-2010, 11:41 PM   #7
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Function and safety put aside, and I can understand what Ben is saying, the aesthetic value I question. I never had a problem seeing in my 997 when trying to view behind me. I would also like to poll to see what others might say. Just not sure if I like the way they look.
And I agree with Soupcan, it appears the hood shape has change... "The jury is still out".

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Unread 02-02-2010, 12:54 AM   #8
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Yeah, when I first saw these spy photos I hated the aesthetics of having the mirrors mounted directly on the door panels, breaking up that smooth panel and making it a PIA to polish and wax. But sometime shortly after I had those thoughts I reached for the door handle on my MINI and sure enough saw that the side mirrors are indeed mounted on the door panels. So since I don't have a problem with them like that on my MINI, I figured I wouldn't have a problem on a future 911 with the side mirrors like that. I just hope it was for functionality and not just change for the sake of change, to give them talking points about the differences between the new and the current.
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Unread 02-02-2010, 09:13 PM   #9
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i wonder if these side mirrors are decoys. I do not know if regulations allow mirrors to be replaced by cameras built into whatever those plastic triangles at the front of the side windows are called. But side rear cameras, instead of traditional mirrors, probably mean lower manufacturing costs, increased performance via lower air resistance, distinction, design simplification, and so... more profits. All this and creative rule reading sounds like P.

If P were exploring cameras, it'd be prudent to screw decoy mirrors into the doors and not miss a chance to test the tech in traffic. Maybe the mule's mirrors are mounted down and away to give cameras the clearest rear shots.
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Unread 02-03-2010, 02:06 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCH View Post
i wonder if these side mirrors are decoys. I do not know if regulations allow mirrors to be replaced by cameras built into whatever those plastic triangles at the front of the side windows are called. But side rear cameras, instead of traditional mirrors, probably mean lower manufacturing costs, increased performance via lower air resistance, distinction, design simplification, and so... more profits. All this and creative rule reading sounds like P.

If P were exploring cameras, it'd be prudent to screw decoy mirrors into the doors and not miss a chance to test the tech in traffic. Maybe the mule's mirrors are mounted down and away to give cameras the clearest rear shots.
Nahhh, not a likely scenario. But a good point nonetheless.

Wind resistance, or drag, is proportional to the square of the velocity. At street legal speeds, which these production street cars are designed for, the difference in drag is negligible. The bigger concern is reliability. Electronics/software components are known for their higher than normal failure rates compared to directly coupled mechanical systems. Case in point: the recent Toyota acceleration problems. Steve Wozniak happens to think it's software related: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...KswIyP3FAm0Ycg

For a car trying to set a new land speed record, doing away with side mirrors might make good sense. But for a production street car, that would have to be the dumbest design decision ever made, even if it's technologically feasible. The key is safety, and providing the intended function reliably, which a simple mirror does quit well. As opposed to cameras, interface connectors, electronic cabling, more connectors, electronic processing by circuit boards, interpretation by PROM software, electronic conversion to a video signal, more connectors, and the reliability of the video display to always display the image.

Besides, governmental mandates may make this a moot point.

Having the side mirrors mounted on the doors like on my Mini makes good sense to me, even though it might be more expensive from a manufacturing perspective.

Like I said, I don't think Porsche will make change for the sake of change. It better darn well be an improvement in functionality. And I think the door mounted mirrors do just that.
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Unread 02-03-2010, 07:07 PM   #11
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I'm sure the functionality aspect is better; but I don't like how it draws my eye to a different line on the car. Almost taking away from it's silhouette.

We'll see on the finished product soon enough...
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Unread 02-03-2010, 07:16 PM   #12
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That car almost looks like a large Cayman. I like it.

On the mirrors, maybe this will give us 928 guys a different choice on mirrors for our cars.
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Unread 03-01-2010, 09:02 PM   #13
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Note new mirrors on the 918 Spyder concept.


http://image.automobilemag.com/f/282...t_interior.jpg
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Unread 03-01-2010, 11:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCH View Post
Note new mirrors on the 918 Spyder concept.
Concept cars have always been and always will be fantasy cars that will never see a production line in its original concept form. They are mainly used to demonstrate technological feasibility.

You can bet that with Toyota's recent electronic problems that affected the critical functions of acceleration and braking, that government mandates will be put in place to reduce if not eliminate all "by wire" critical functions that affect safety. A mirror will never fail unless it is smashed to smithereens, and even then some intact shards may provide sufficient reflection to make a safe lane change. But a camera and display system is a minefield of electronic glitches, and no manufacturer will needlessly want to take on the liability of introducing something whose failure can cause an accident when someone makes an unsafe lane change and blames the accident on the failure of the camera/display system to properly function.
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Unread 03-02-2010, 07:53 PM   #15
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Two, the closer the side mirror is to the driver the wider the viewing angle provided by a mirror, essentially increasing a mirror's effectiveness without increasing its size.
On the other hand, a mirror's size and thus aerodynamic cross section can be reduced while preserving the same viewing angle when the mirror is moved closer to the driver. So the reduction in aerodynamic drag, I would say, is a primary factor with this design.
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