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Unread 01-05-2011, 02:47 PM   #16
George D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDP View Post
Ha, that intake is funny. Good way to maximize the space I guess. But does that mean you need to remove the front nose to remove the intake? It looks like a one piece aluminum pipe.

Did I read that right? Stock 951 cam?
Yes, stock 951 cam and hydraulic lifters. I want a similar tq curve as a factory K26/6 2.5 car. I've been around these cars for many years and have owned three. Driven many that were highly modded.

The best setup I've ever owned and driven was a 2.5 with a K27/6 that put down 330whp (6300rpm) and 345wt (3500rpm). That turbo and tune responded immediately. Boost came on NOW. That car was much faster than the dyno numbers stated.

I'm trying to replicate this power curve with an additional 200whp or so with reliability.
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Unread 01-05-2011, 03:10 PM   #17
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I've never liked the intake in the hot engine bay. This looks like a good idea. Are the three filters smaller than what is typically used on most MAF setups?
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Unread 01-05-2011, 04:44 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Tconnors View Post
I've never liked the intake in the hot engine bay. This looks like a good idea. Are the three filters smaller than what is typically used on most MAF setups?
No, not from the 2.5" to 3" setups I've seen. The larger one is about the size of the K&N filter I used to have mounted to the 4" intake. We've more than doubled the potential CFM. Clean K&N filters flow better than dirty ones, but dirty K&N filters filter better, hence the larger intake. I wanted to be able to actually use the K&N recommended cleaning schedule posted below.

Having quick access to the actual filters isn't very important when you actually use the recommended cleaning schedule.

K&N has a "Million Mile Warranty" or basically for the life of your vehicle. K&N says their filter will go up to 40,000 or more miles before needing cleaning. K&N also says that you should not clean your filter more than 25 times or the cotton filter media can become to worn to filter effectively.
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Unread 01-05-2011, 05:07 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by John Koa Wood View Post
Holy crap George.. them sure are fancy!

Only real reason I asked about the head is the 16V heads, from my understanding, are MUCH less prone to detonation, allowing for higher static compression ratios to be run, and when running a full custom beast like this, everything is being changed anyway....

I will one day be building a 3+L engine for my 951, and plan to build it using the 16V head for just that reason, higher static CR, alows for optimaization of off boost performance, and over all lower boost to be used..

Not sharpshooting, was just currious!

Thanks for the info, and for the pics and inspiration!
John,

You should drive both and then make your decision. Both setups are prone to detonation if the tuning is poor, or you overboost your motor. There isn't much you can do to a car that was designed for tq and 12 psi boost. You can overflow the head to have a dyno number, but you will kill your motor is short notice.

The 16v motors may be less prone to detonation because of a bad tune, but I don't know first hand. Detonation can be taken out of the loop with a good tune. Tuning on these cars is paramount. Vitesse does this very well with his chips and piggybacks. I will do this with stand alone full sequential setup using TEC, Bosche 100lb injectors, and a 044 Motorsports fuel pump wired directly to my battery with NEW large guage wiring.

Don't worry about detonation with either of these heads if you have good tuning. These motors feel like a big v8 because they were designed for TQ and midrange power. I used to have a 400+ WHP EVO. My 330whp 951 was faster. The EVO motor felt like a turbo four, my 2.5 Porsche motor felt like a much larger motor. The 16V cars shift the tq curve further up the RPM. If you want bigger top end, the 16V head is better.

Whatever your eventual decision, the 3.0 motors transform these cars. Just make sure that everything else on the car is up to task. These cars begin to be like fast bikes once you surpass 400whp with max tq by 4K.

George
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Unread 01-05-2011, 10:37 PM   #20
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Awesome !!! that intake is hotter than a 3 peckered goat !!!

To translate my "country boy" humor, that intake is a well thought out piece of art !!!
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Unread 01-05-2011, 11:09 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by David Floyd View Post
Awesome !!! that intake is hotter than a 3 peckered goat !!!

To translate my "country boy" humor, that intake is a well thought out piece of art !!!
David,

I've seen your efforts on Rennlist, and know you know how much effort went into this intake design and eventual working intake.

Thanks for posting.

George
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Unread 01-06-2011, 01:30 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by George D View Post
John,

You should drive both and then make your decision. Both setups are prone to detonation if the tuning is poor, or you overboost your motor. There isn't much you can do to a car that was designed for tq and 12 psi boost. You can overflow the head to have a dyno number, but you will kill your motor is short notice.

The 16v motors may be less prone to detonation because of a bad tune, but I don't know first hand. Detonation can be taken out of the loop with a good tune. Tuning on these cars is paramount. Vitesse does this very well with his chips and piggybacks. I will do this with stand alone full sequential setup using TEC, Bosche 100lb injectors, and a 044 Motorsports fuel pump wired directly to my battery with NEW large guage wiring.

Don't worry about detonation with either of these heads if you have good tuning. These motors feel like a big v8 because they were designed for TQ and midrange power. I used to have a 400+ WHP EVO. My 330whp 951 was faster. The EVO motor felt like a turbo four, my 2.5 Porsche motor felt like a much larger motor. The 16V cars shift the tq curve further up the RPM. If you want bigger top end, the 16V head is better.

Whatever your eventual decision, the 3.0 motors transform these cars. Just make sure that everything else on the car is up to task. These cars begin to be like fast bikes once you surpass 400whp with max tq by 4K.

George
Well said George, sounds to me like our cars might end up cousins if not brothers..

major difference being a lowly 2.5 CW prepared motor.. all other steps I am taking are to prepare the car for a 3+L powerplant in the future.. perhaps later this year...

I am not going for top numbers, just more than I had previously, reliably, with a few twists and turns along the way.. and while you are further along than I am, I should be making up some ground just as soon as I get this little divorce thing out of the way!
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Unread 01-06-2011, 10:36 AM   #23
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Are you deleting the side marker lights? Or does it clear the filter?

Thanks for sharing some of your hard and expensive developement work, it gives the rest of us a leg up on our projects.
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Unread 01-06-2011, 11:09 AM   #24
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It is amazing how much air these cars suck. I had an issue earlier this year with rubber bits getting sucked into the factory 2" snorkel tube and causing a restriction. I did some math, and a 2.5 liter engine at 1 bar boost and 5000 RPM is sucking 100 liters of air a second.
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Unread 01-06-2011, 12:26 PM   #25
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Its all about the VE... no matter what the charge pressure, if the VE of the system isn't optomised it WILL have issues...

Georges approach is interesting, especially the air filter setup. I would be interested in seeing the colapse pressure for ONE of his filters, much less all 3.. his setup should alow for verry little restriction of the air pre-turbo, it will be interesting to watch this one come alive!
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Unread 01-06-2011, 12:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tconnors View Post
Are you deleting the side marker lights? Or does it clear the filter?

Thanks for sharing some of your hard and expensive developement work, it gives the rest of us a leg up on our projects.
The filter clears the side markers. The filters reside behind the factory plastic piece on the inside of the wheel over the inner fender. You don't visually know it's there.
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Unread 01-08-2011, 07:53 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by hacker-pschorr View Post
What was the CFM measurement at what boost and HP?

What size are the inlets to those filters?

Nice work, beautiful car.
The estimate was done estimating 650 flywheel hp at 6300rpm. This showed the intake sucking at approximately 800cfm. The cfm of the filters, two at 2.5" inlet and one at 3" would flow at approximately 1100cfm when new and clean.

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Unread 01-08-2011, 07:55 PM   #28
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This will be at around 18psi boost.
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Unread 01-08-2011, 08:50 PM   #29
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Headlight picture update. Got the lights fired up today. These new Hella projection beam H9 bulbs are bright. Here are a few pictures. This was done in a lit garage, and they were very bright.
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File Type: jpg George darling headlights (1).jpg (237.4 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg George darling headlights (2).jpg (242.8 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg George darling headlights (3).jpg (243.3 KB, 5 views)
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Unread 01-09-2011, 12:14 PM   #30
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Looking good George! Getting close!
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