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Unread 08-17-2010, 09:47 PM   #1
CPR
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Default Turbo Choices.....

What is the absolute best performing turbo for these cars? Low-end & high end....400~ish rwhp would be the max.

Supporting mods:
~Vitesse MAF/chips/SMT6
~83lbs Injectors/3 Bar
~3" FabSpeed
~Vitesse EBC
~TiAL 38

Disregard cost.

I want it to perform everywhere and all the way to redline. Running 17 or 18psi.

Please note if it is a bolt up, or needs mods/adaptors/etc....


TIA
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Unread 08-17-2010, 11:19 PM   #2
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An obvious choice with your mods would be a Vitesse turbo. The stage 2 I had pulled hard
down low but ran out of steam in the upper rpm range. The stage 3 might be better.
The GT dual ball bearing turbo's seem to be getting good reviews. One of these will be my next turbo.
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Unread 08-17-2010, 11:26 PM   #3
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Had I seen this over here it would have been easier. Dave has everything you need. If you're serious about this and ready to drop the money, ask Dave and he'll set you up. You already have the G4? Then I would highly suggest the GT route. You won't regret it. Just youtube some videos of them, that'll make up your mind.
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Unread 08-17-2010, 11:28 PM   #4
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This shows everything you need to know:

http://reutterwerk.com/forums/showpo...2&postcount=14

Just remember that you don't need to do everything you see in those pictures. Waqqas is a crazy man.
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Unread 08-17-2010, 11:40 PM   #5
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Slightly OT chris but is this for the Black car or are you fiddling with the Red one?
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Unread 08-18-2010, 12:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlege View Post
Slightly OT chris but is this for the Black car or are you fiddling with the Red one?
The red one. Blackie may see life as a 3.0........maybe.
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Unread 08-18-2010, 01:55 AM   #7
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I would recommend going with a GT turbo setup. I've personally ran a 50 trim, 57 trim, 60 trim, 60-1 on different 2.5L to 2.8L 951's and my opinion is that hands down my current GT3076R is the "best" performing, all around turbo for a 2.5L car. I run the GT adapter block with an additional shim to eliminate the potential of any oil leaks along with a Garrett .63 A/R turbine housing.

This has been a killer set up for my 2.5L car with modded head and all the other goodies that are commonly expected.

I had to modify my turbo mount slightly, re-do the "up" section of the crossover pipe and make a new 3" downpipe for the install. The Garrett .63 A/R housing is quite a bit larger than the common KKK replica and it dramatically dropped my logged backpressure readings compared to what I was seeing with the KKK #10 housings I've used in the past. With this turbo, the slightest throttle input and I'm into positive manifold pressure and my engine SCREAMS to redline and never stops pulling. At 18 psi, I'm seeing 22-24 psi of backpressure compared to 40-45 psi at this boost level with a larger Stg 3 turbine wheel and #10 housing. I can only attribute this improvement to the newer generation swept blade design of the GT turbine wheel and larger housing cause everything else on my engine has remained the same. I made just under 360 rwhp & tq on a DynaPack @ 18.5 psi and pump gas with this turbo. I really couldn't ask for more - awesome spool with very decent top end.

If you'd like any further detail on what it takes to install this turbo, let me know.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1010058.jpg (137.5 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg P1010066.jpg (134.7 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg Modded Crossover (3).JPG (181.1 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Turbo Comparison (8).jpg (133.2 KB, 224 views)
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'89 951 Guards Red - 2.5L Vi-PEC V44, GT3076R
'89 951 Stone Grey - 3.0L 16V Turbo Project, V88
'86 951 Sapphire Blue - 2.8L Vi-PEC V44, GT30R
'89 944S2 Black - Stock

Last edited by Pauerman; 08-18-2010 at 12:31 PM.
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Unread 08-18-2010, 02:20 AM   #8
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I've also got the TiAL mount for a 3.0L project and while its frickin' awesome, I think there is an overall cost savings in retaining the factory mount and using the adpater block. Regardless of what mount is used, factory or TiAL, the crossover and downpipe still need to be modified.

If there was enough interest in the GT turbo option, using the TiAL mount for proper repositioning, I know of a turbo charger machine shop that "could" cast and machine a Garrett based .63 A/R or .82 A/R turbine housing that have KKK inlet and outlet dimensions. This would make for a bolt-on GT turbo package WITHOUT any mods needed to the crossover or factory downpipe. TiAL has made a small batch run of stainless KKK replica housing but they are no longer available. Even though TiAL labels their stainless housings with Garrett sizing (.63, .82 etc), they are actually smaller than an actual Garrett housing of the quoted size. I wish there was enough market for me to justify the 100 piece investment, but unfortuately the 951 game is too limited and for a small business guy like me it just wouldn't make sense.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TiAL Mount (1).JPG (169.2 KB, 13 views)
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'89 951 Guards Red - 2.5L Vi-PEC V44, GT3076R
'89 951 Stone Grey - 3.0L 16V Turbo Project, V88
'86 951 Sapphire Blue - 2.8L Vi-PEC V44, GT30R
'89 944S2 Black - Stock

Last edited by Pauerman; 08-18-2010 at 04:24 AM.
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Unread 08-18-2010, 02:32 AM   #9
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Vic, just curious what hotside flange is run with the Garret, is it a triple-K flange or something different?

I like the idea of using the Tial hotside with all v-band, but i think it adds to the PITA factor atleast for me, having to pay someone to do the fab work. Also what is the aprox. cost of that Tial mount, as i remember its uber expensive...but oh so nice.

I would like to eventually go with a Garret ball bearing, that is if i dont sell out and drop in a LSx instead. Im just curious to know what exhaust work would need to get done.
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Unread 08-18-2010, 02:45 AM   #10
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I had turbine inlet and outlet flanges cut so that I could use the MLS gaskets and get rid of the factory crush rings. The Garrett housings I've used are "off the shelf" castings that have been machined to the KKK bolt spacing. The inlet if further cut to make a circular shape to match the crossover.

Because the GT CHRA (center housing rotating assembly) makes the turbo sit in a different position, the upward section of the crossover must be re-shaped to where is does not make contact with the steering shaft. The total amount of exhaust work is the up section re-shape and a new downpipe. Take a closer look at the slightly different shape of my up pipe.

I'm unsure of the MSRP of the TiAL mount, but I recall the price ranging from $500-$600.

Crossover up pipe (4).JPG

This is how the Garrett / KKK version comes from ATP and what I did to clean up the steps created from the machine cuts.

GT30 Fitment (4).JPG
Garrett Inlet (3).JPG
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'89 951 Guards Red - 2.5L Vi-PEC V44, GT3076R
'89 951 Stone Grey - 3.0L 16V Turbo Project, V88
'86 951 Sapphire Blue - 2.8L Vi-PEC V44, GT30R
'89 944S2 Black - Stock

Last edited by Pauerman; 08-18-2010 at 01:36 PM.
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Unread 08-18-2010, 04:32 AM   #11
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I would agree with Derek and Vic. The GT3076 is a great turbo for a 2.5L (and probably bigger) motor. Great cross-section of spool and power through the rev range. Very happy with mine.

The crossover and d-pipe did need some small mods but any shop could do that pretty easily. Go for V band fittings too.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1.jpg (249.0 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (230.3 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Patrick gt3076 001.jpg (39.5 KB, 369 views)
File Type: jpg Patrick gt3076 006.jpg (31.3 KB, 371 views)
File Type: jpg Patrick gt3076 039.jpg (37.2 KB, 359 views)

Last edited by 333pg333; 08-18-2010 at 04:58 AM.
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Unread 08-18-2010, 05:20 AM   #12
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Hi Vic

That 3076 sounds good is that with a 3" exhaust all the way?
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Unread 08-18-2010, 12:26 PM   #13
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Rod,

I've got a full 3" all the way back.

Great install shots Patrick - I'll be doing v-band housings moving forward as well.

This is a shot showing the offset of the GT turbo when it's installed with the mount adapter and factory crossover. I opted to make the "S" turn into the pipe because it allowed the use of the heat shield covering the seal on the power steering input spline.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Crossover Mod (3).JPG (173.6 KB, 18 views)
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'89 951 Guards Red - 2.5L Vi-PEC V44, GT3076R
'89 951 Stone Grey - 3.0L 16V Turbo Project, V88
'86 951 Sapphire Blue - 2.8L Vi-PEC V44, GT30R
'89 944S2 Black - Stock
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Unread 08-18-2010, 12:43 PM   #14
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At what RPM do you see full boost with the GT3076 in 3rd gear?
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Unread 08-18-2010, 01:05 PM   #15
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I'll have to do a log to see exactly what it is, but I do know that the transitional boost response of this turbo is quite noticeable from the seat of your pants perspective.

I've had a few 951 guys drive my car and compared to their chipped 26/6 and 26/8 cars, they were "surprised" at the spool rate and what kind of potential exists under their hoods!

Here's the turbo installed showing the modded water pipe with 14mm banjo and mount adapter with shim.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg GT30R Installed (5).JPG (178.0 KB, 17 views)
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'89 951 Guards Red - 2.5L Vi-PEC V44, GT3076R
'89 951 Stone Grey - 3.0L 16V Turbo Project, V88
'86 951 Sapphire Blue - 2.8L Vi-PEC V44, GT30R
'89 944S2 Black - Stock

Last edited by Pauerman; 08-18-2010 at 01:41 PM.
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