05-15-2009, 03:17 AM | #1 |
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2wd vs 4wd.............?
Hey all. How do you 993 guys feel about the handling on your cars? What I really mean is two wheel drive vs all wheel drive. Which is more fun. Which would be better to track. Do most all wheel drives push?
An article in a recent Excellence got me to thinking when they called the 911 TT AWD car a bankers car. I'v seen some great deals on some 993TT's of late but I'm not sure I'd like the handling. What say you guys? Am I making much ado about nothing? Lulz |
05-15-2009, 08:45 AM | #2 |
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I don't track my C4 or anything, so I haven't come close to the "edge" yet. That said, since I also don't drive in bad weather, it's really a waste for me. I also don't have a C2 993 to compare against since the only other 911 I drove was an 84.
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05-15-2009, 11:12 AM | #3 |
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I am partially with Patrick in that I don't track my car at this time (mine is a C2), but I do use it as a daily driver, rain or shine. For day-to-day driving, it handles like a champ. I only have had a brief drive in a C4 993 about a year ago, and while it felt a little bit heavier from a steering perspective, it wasn't as bad as the 997 C2 vs C4. For me personally, in a 993 I wouldn't worry about C2 vs C4 for a driver (not sure about track though).
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05-15-2009, 11:33 AM | #4 |
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I've wondered about this question. My 993 is a C2 and it's been a very long time since I drove a 993 C4, so I don't really have any comparison. Also, I have never tracked either car, so I can't compare how they handle at the limit. I plan to track my 993 in the future but haven't gotten around to it in my 4 months of ownership.
An aside is that I drove a 964 C4 once and I've never forgotten the experience. I hated it. It seemed slow and clumsy. Before that I'd thought about getting one for all-season driving but the experience really turned me off. I don't remember the specifics of my later 993 C4 drive but it wasn't negative. They must have truly improved the AWD system in the 993.
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05-15-2009, 12:02 PM | #5 |
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Thought I'd weigh in here as I have had my C4S for 11 years now but can only compare it to my previous Porsche which was an 88 930. That was a scary car!
I've autocrossed my C4S for the past 9 years or so on a regular basis (6 to 8 times a year) and find it to be a super handling car. You can see in my sig the mods made to my car over the years. Other than all the power and torque added with the SC perhaps the biggest improvement which basically killed the "push" was the change to my suspension (H&R coilovers, euro TT sway bars, shock tower brace and about 1 1/2 degrees of negative camber plus the car lowered about 2"). Turn in is sharp, and predictable and even with 4WD I'm able to rotate the car at will on tight courses. Acceleration out of corners is fantastic (and I believe much better) with 4WD as it allows you to get on the throttle hard and sooner while helping pull you through the corner ... and it's much more predictable and forgiving than RWD. Not many people track 4WD cars because they are heavier the C2's and the S versions are also wider adding more wind resistance. I've never tracked my car but I'd think that the performance would be similar on more wide open venues. Also haven't driven the car in the winter (as it would be a snow plow) but find it handles great in the wet as well. BTW using Sumitomo HTR Z III tires which, in my opinion, outperform the 2X expensive Michelin SO-2's. Somewhere I recently saw a write up by John D on these tires and find that he's a fan of them as well. As always YMMV.
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05-15-2009, 02:21 PM | #6 |
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I've signed up for my first DE at the end of May at PR in Seattle. My only Porsche has been the C4. It will be interesting to see how it performs and compares to others in the novice class. I expect that there will be mostly C2's running. I have been told to expect understeer, especially as my car is bone stock. I'll, hopefully, check back in here after the DE and give a better perspective.
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05-15-2009, 02:45 PM | #7 |
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I will guarantee it.
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05-16-2009, 04:59 AM | #8 |
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Thanks. Lot's of food for thought.
I need to drive both types to get a more personal opinion.993's IMHO were the best looking 911's ever. They also seem to hold their value rather well. Lulz |
05-17-2009, 08:44 PM | #9 |
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I track my car (its about all the pavement time it sees any more), and I hated the front end push, followed by front wheel grab (like a fwd car). So I disconnected the front wheels. I haven't removed all the parts (total conversion requires minor body alterations), but converting to 2 wheel drive in addition to the LWF was a transforming activity. The car goes and steers like it should now and I love it. Wish it wasn't such a heavy car, but......
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05-18-2009, 08:54 PM | #10 | |
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And as Dick said: YMMV. But the first thing one needs to consider on these cars is suspension tuning; they have a lot of potential and a stock setup won't get you there. |
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The Following User Says Thank You to For Your Post: | Dick B. (05-18-2009) |
05-19-2009, 01:56 AM | #11 | |
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C2 VS C4 comparison opened my eyes on AWD traits. I'm guessing a TT has the same basic AWD setup as C4. Hmmm...but I've always heard the TT handled superbly.(pretty neutral for a rear engined car) So I'm gonna surmise that as Canyon56 stated that it's all about the suspension setup in the 993TT that makes it work. Well, that and a generous helping of HP and torque. I have seen some awesome deals on some 993TT's of late but didn't know if I would like the handling. Hence my post. lulz |
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05-19-2009, 04:34 AM | #12 | |
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The C4S is the same car as the TT, sans the turbo (and deck spoiler.) What I was saying, and what Dick first pointed out, is that tuning the suspension from stock in any AWD 911 (e.g., coilovers; sways; etc.) can result in much more desirable handling, esp if one prefers less understeer/push. |
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05-19-2009, 05:35 AM | #13 | |
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Thanks to all for the feedback. lulz |
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05-19-2009, 09:40 AM | #14 |
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A stock C4S and TT use almost identical suspension setups. The TT has a little more beefy rear sway bars but to my knowledge that is it. Therefore the two of them as delivered will exhibit similar handling characteristics tho I suspect the stock TT might present with more understeer due to it's higher hp and torque levels. The C4's (not C4S's) have the same suspension as C2's I believe.
I can testify about the tail happiness of 930's .... went backwards more times than I care to remember.
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05-20-2009, 09:28 PM | #15 | |
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The torque steer is why I converted my 993tt to 2WD. I liked the car a LOT before. I love it now.
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